Thanks to Rodd, Ross and Anonymous (even though I know who you are) for your comments on the 'Learning from the Emerging Church: being creative' post from last week. It just goes to show that those of us who are ministers in the established church are so fixated with our own context that we can't even talk about anything outside that context without slipping back into 'Christianese' (and I thought I was doing so well)! I apologise. Perhaps terms like 'mission', 'ecumenism', and 'the emerging church' need to be more clearly defined, and I'll try to do that soon(ish).
On the mysticism thing - my understanding is that many in our (postmodern) culture (oops, do I need to define that, too?) are very interested in spirituality indeed, but they are not looking to the Church for answers to their spiritual questions. Rather, they are consulting astrologers, playing with Tarot, doing Bhuddist meditation, etc. I have heard that the Pagan Federation in the UK is now bigger than the Baptist Union of Great Britain! These practices are all, arguably, 'mystical'. Or perhaps it would be better to say they are 'contemplative'.
I agree that some of this stuff (lectio divina, meditation, drumming, chanting) is unfamiliar to us, incomprehensible and even frightening. But they are part of a long-neglected Christian contemplative tradition. I have found that, not only in my personal spiritual life, but also when I use some of these techniques in leading worship, that they are a very powerful way of connecting with God.
But let me know what you think?
About Me
- Marcus Bull
- I am married to the lovely Claire, and we have a son, Thomas, who is 8 years old. I am a Baptist Minister working in a Baptist-Methodist-URC (United Reformed Church) LEP (Local Ecumenical Partnership). That's one church but three denominations!
8 comments:
Dear Revmadbull,
I think you are doing very well. Just getting the conversations started and encouraging a bit of thinking outside the square is most useful. As for defining individual terms and concepts in words that anyone could understand; well that's just not practical. Our ideas would become hamstrung in explanation. I can relate to Rodd's thoughts though. Much of the general tone of the emerging churches phenomenon carries a new age, mystical, hippie, kind of feel. Maybe that's because these movements have stolen so much from older Christian ideas and practices. I'm open to these ideas but I sincerely worry for people I know who think "new age stuff is weird" and that "Church stuff is irrelevant and boring". Most of the unchurched people I know search for deep spiritual answers to life's questions with the same intensity that they search for a good DVD to hire on a Saturday night. It's important ; but ; you know; I'm comfortable and so easily distracted and ; hey ya wanna get a pizza?.
I personally have found the regular observance of a daily office, the use of an Orthodox prayer rope during prayer, and lectio divina really transformative to my own devotional life and I am encouraging members of my own church to be open to such practices.
I think that many people - particularly within the Protestant tradition - are wary of these things because they are associated with other church traditions (Roman Catholicism, Orthodox, etc.) and because of an anxiety over the unknown (on the face of it, lectio divina does SOUND mysterious!).
Of course, all these practices were in use within the Church many centuries before the Reformation and, as a Baptist, I have found them unbelievably helpful and not at all at odds in any way with my Protestant convictions.
BB.
I sometimes think people who are naturally attracted to mystical chanting and new age practices get their fill from the activities themselves without actually wanting to meet with God; much less bow down to Him. There is an air of warm sticky secret knowlege. A sense of having risen to some higher level of understanding that the simple man in the street could never hope to reach.
As Christians we shouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater. We shouldn't let new age religions rob us of good things. ( I like dolphins..... there I admit it)
Whatever we do , it's got to be with God in charge.
Well at least you've stirred up some commentary on the matter!
No need to apologise, it's one of the beauties of blogging. You share your thoughts, others challenge them, respond to them, and influence you. I love it (and it's why I do it).
Regarding your comment on the contemplative traditions - I totally and wholeheartedly agree. The trick is slowly changing and challenging our congregations to be comfortable with practises that allow us to practise 'Selah'. I put my own thoughts up on this a few weeks ago (the link is here).
Gosh, there was no need for an apology but thank you!
I think there will be lots of families who would like to go to church but don't really know where to start. Questions they might ask themselves - "Will I get told off if I don't go every week?", "Will I get frowned at if my child needs the loo/trumps/yells mid-prayer?" "When I walk in for the first time will a silence descend in church, some tumbleweed roll past and the words 'they're not LOCAL' be whispered...
Are us 'un-theologised' (ha, yes, I can do new Christianese too!)less relevant because we don't necessarily want a brow furrowing theological debate? Does the fact that we want to come to thank God, enjoy a service, take the values away and practise them in our business as usual lives, enjoy songs, make sure the children are happy and behave whilst also learning from Jclub how to walk the walk as well as talk the talk, make new friends, play an active and positive part with both the church community and the local community mean that we should really have the cheap seats because we're not observing regular 'visible' devotional routines on a daily basis? I don't think so.
I asked around to see which churches people used and, er, only found one mum out of all the parents I know who went. Some turned up for parade services at your church which is why we gave yours a bash (ain't you lucky!!)thinking that at least our children might know some of the congregation even if it was only on parade day.
I also looked at the website - would have liked some more info on the history of the church and, talk about Christianese, Marcus, your message...I have an English A level but not a degree in Theology and I've had to read it 4 times so far and still have fathomed it all out even though I've been on various websites to look up various phrases. I thought that maybe I would have to sit in the corner with my dunce hat on if I couldn't answer questions on the contents of the message!
I can tell from your post-sabbatical message that you have a great passion about the way you think things ought to go but at what cost? Will the congregation stay with you if they're not comfortable with, say, chanting (or chuntering as my daughter once called it!)or other alternative ways to worship?
I love the services at Trinity - I feel involved and connected, I love the band and the level of 'happy clappy-ness'- enough for me to have a little sway from side to side and clap along yet not enough to affect my typical British-ness about really letting go!
I also enjoyed the evening service yesterday with the mainly older and incredibly charming members of the congregation and traditional hymns.
However much I like and respect members of your church (and I don't think I have ever met such a group of genuine and lovely people), I wouldn't come if I wasn't comfortable during the service. I'd try somewhere else.
So in your position, how do you find the balance between where your own personal thoughts are leading you vs what the congregation would like? What about asking them what they would like to do? A bit of brainstorming might start the ball rolling in finding ways to merge the line between stage and audience. Or isn't that the done thing? How do you know what they want and need?
I can't match you for Christianese so I will throw in a bit of business instead. You're a Regional Manager for God. Your customers all want to come and worship God, and they also want the friendship, love and support from a friendly church community and to be able to highly recommend your church to the 'un-churched'. But, there are plenty of other RMs in the locality - heaps of them infact, all wanting to increase their 'sales' and get more customers.
What sets you apart? What's going to get new customers - will you leave it to sheer luck that people will just pick your church? Or can we do something to tap into the huge customer base that's out there? And what about keeping the existing members - do you know what they think or what they would like? What is it that will keep the current J Club members coming once they're all grown up and not forced to come with their parents?!!!What's going to make your church 'cool' with the youngsters and yet still meet the needs of those with more traditional requirements? The answer will always be by meeting their needs and providing an excellent customer service. And maybe some good marketing/branding!!
I'm not saying that dumbing-down is the way to go, what I am saying is that your customers need to remain feeling connected to you and the messages you give. I don't want a bad report card from God saying that in music, I just lip-synched to the chanting and in dance, I didn't jump into the aisles enough and in drama, I didn't get on the mic to do a soliloquy at the front.Overall D- must try harder!
Well, after all that, I could have just said 'diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks so make sure your strokes match your folks' and you'd have probably got the message. I want my church to be all about a living, breathing family that can adapt to the needs of its members whilst maintaining the values at its core.
Clearly, my report card would also say, 'English - whilst having some valid and even
sometimes interesting points to make, these can get lost in the conversational ramblings spewing forth in her emails.....'
Oh, everyone nodded off after my spiel ! Sorry, I'll get back to the kitchen....!!!!
Thanks for your comment Rancid v.
Maybe my simplistic views and frankly, enthusiasm, about wanting to encourage people into church don't belong in such discussions.
Thanks Stephanie, Rancid (great name, by the way) and the rest of you for a stimulating discussion!
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